Subj : Re: Recession to Depressi
To : Arelor
From : Boraxman
Date : Sun Jul 24 2022 11:45 am
Re: Re: Recession to Depressi
By: Arelor to Boraxman on Sat Jul 23 2022 06:52 am
> I'd argue that no State represents the will of the people, and therefore,
> any Socialist State does not represent the will of the people either.
> Therefore, according to your logic, Socialism is not Socialism (which is
> absurd).
>
> Fascism didn't make a flag from authoritarism. It made a flag of principles
> such as not leaveing anybody behind, organizing strategic industries in
> Unions in order to preserve everybody's rights, and improving the standing
> of everybody by improving the standing of the nation (because the nation is
> the people).
>
> Spanish Fascism stablished lots of Socialists programs still in use today,
> such as Social Security and State funded housing for the poor, because
> General Franco was the benevolent overseer who ensured not one of us was
> left behind.
>
> Of course, if you disliked Franco or the vertical Unions, you disliked Spain
> and therefore you disliked every Spaniard. As such, you were a Communist
> traitor and we had to shoot you in order to protect our rights.
>
I stated that there were different types of Socialism which are in detail, quite different systems. I never said that Socailism MUST be state based. State based "Socialist" systems exist, as well as Anarchist Socialist systems. Much in the same way that you can have State sponsored Capitalism or Libertarianism/Anarcho-Capitalism, Capitalism without a state. Different systems, but both Capitalists.
Neither did I say I endorse all "Socialism", many forms, such as Marxism I do not endorse at all. Some forms of economic arrangement can be classed as Socialist and Capitalist at the same time. A system of universal self employement, as I have described, fits the definition of Capitalism, as the means of production are privately owned.
Your confusion comes from accepting the Socialist/Capitalist gradient, that one is either one or the other. The matter of state control is seperate to the matter of autonomy which is seperate to the matter of ownership. We really need to move away from the very limiting language, which muddies discussion and creates confusion.
The desire to label things in broad categories really stifles understanding.
So I'll repeat again, the terms "Socialism" and "Capitalism" in their broadest sense cover a range of systems, some of which, lumped together, are mutually exlusive! Socialism, as it is used by Capitalism is used specifically to refer to Marxism, where as Capitalism, is either used by the Left to refer to the current system, or by the Right to refer specifically to a system of free markets, primacy of capital, employement and minimal state power.
As to what Fasicsm stood for, well, EVERY pathological system makes those claims. It's propaganda.
