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YouTube legal team contacted us #3872

Open
[48]TheFrenchGhosty opened this issue Jun 8, 2023 · 13 comments
Open

[49]YouTube legal team contacted us #3872

[50]TheFrenchGhosty opened this issue Jun 8, 2023 · 13 comments

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[51]@TheFrenchGhosty
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[52]TheFrenchGhosty commented [53]Jun 8, 2023 •
edited

[54]image

[55]image

[56]image

They don't understand that we never agreed to any of their
TOS/policies, they don't understand that we don't use their API.

What now?

Things will continue normally until they can't anymore.

Assume it's just the start.

Assume they'll ask GitHub to takedown the repos (if so go to our Gitea
[57]https://gitea.invidious.io/iv-org ).

Assume the team wont be able to work on Invidious.

You know what you have to do.

May Invidious live and prosper, with, or without us.

PS: We won't do anything unless we have to.

PS-2: If we are forced to quit, any funds remaining will go to
Framasoft (and maybe some other organization working on FOSS/privacy)
__________________________________________________________________

Edit: Some people people asked me why I’m not stopping my work on
Invidious, here’s the explanation:
[58]https://blog.thefrenchghosty.me/posts/im-not-invidious/
__________________________________________________________________

Edit 2:

New websites and creators that talked about this (sorted by the order
by which we discovered them):
* TorrentFreak (news website):
[59]https://torrentfreak.com/youtube-orders-invidious-privacy-softw
are-to-shut-down-in-7-days-230609/ (great coverage)
* AlternativeTo (news website):
[60]https://alternativeto.net/news/2023/6/youtube-legal-team-asked-
invidious-developers-to-take-down-the-service-within-7-days/
* Lous Rossman (YouTube creator):
[61]https://redirect.invidious.io/watch?v=PTmZv7-eMrE (great
coverage)

The text was updated successfully, but these errors were encountered:

(LAUGH react) 😄 16 GreyXor, hackermare, BenBE, tiziodcaio, dosssman,
ax-i-om, meichthys, selfisekai, vixpr, Wolframme, and 6 more reacted
with laugh emoji (CONFUSED react) 😕 21 kubo6472, Uriopass, selurvedu,
squili, Freeplayg, projjalm, blooalien, gi-yt, AidanG1, Tamnac, and 11
more reacted with confused emoji (HEART react) ❤️ 28 CarlBishop,
projjalm, slipsby, ShadowStorm0, bleonard252, xatier, BenBE,
meisme-dev, ax-i-om, vixpr, and 18 more reacted with heart emoji
(EYES react) 👀 11 projjalm, HiWhatName, AmiSapphire, BenBE,
sebastientaggart, ax-i-om, FrostKiwi, vixpr, felipebueno, brokenbyte,
and Nul-led reacted with eyes emoji
All reactions
* 😄 16 reactions
* 😕 21 reactions
* ❤️ 28 reactions
* 👀 11 reactions

[62]@TheFrenchGhosty [63]TheFrenchGhosty pinned this issue [64]Jun 8,
2023
[65]@projjalm
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[66]projjalm commented [67]Jun 8, 2023

Reddit charging millions for their API calls, YouTube blocking
ad-blockers, and now this. I see a pattern here, they're trying very
hard to veer users out of their platforms to an user-respecting
alternative. I sense a similar letter to Piped, NewPipe, or any of the
more popular youtube clients.
But as always, I hope the very best for Invidious. its what i
daily-drive for watching videos. If the worst happens in this case,
Invidious will go dark and I'll discontinue viewing youtube, at least
on desktop, for good.
Lots of love to you and the contributors for gifting us such a simple
and lovely frontend. <3
All reactions

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[68]@ahcheing
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[69]ahcheing commented [70]Jun 8, 2023 •
edited

They don't understand that we never agreed to any of their
TOS/policies

I dont know what their API terms are but I assume/suspect that youtube
would argue that since you are accessing their service you are also
consenting to their terms of service. The terms of service are the
terms under which they make their content available in the first place,
if you don't agree to the terms you are not supposed to be accessing
their services.

I am not saying I agree with that but thats how they think.

[71]https://www.youtube.com/static?template=terms

Permissions and Restrictions
You may access and use the Service as made available to you, as long
as you comply with this Agreement and applicable law...
The following restrictions apply to your use of the Service. You are
not allowed to ...
access, reproduce, download, distribute, transmit, broadcast,
display, sell, license, alter, modify or otherwise use any part of
the Service or any Content except: (a) as expressly authorized by
the Service; or (b) with prior written permission from YouTube and,
if applicable, the respective rights holders;

The TOS is i suspect orthogonal to DMCA claims they would probably hit
you with if they decided to go after the project so its a bit of a moot
point.
(THUMBS_UP react) 👍 1 projjalm reacted with thumbs up emoji
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* 👍 1 reaction

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[72]@yamilt351
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[73]yamilt351 commented [74]Jun 8, 2023

I can't believe it, I've been using Invidious for a while now as an
excellent replacement for the crap that is YouTube, and I really want
to congratulate you for bringing privacy and peace of mind to thousands
of us who are aware of the garbage that Google and its 'services'
represent. It's a shame that these things happen, I guess we'll have to
wait and see what happens.
(THUMBS_UP react) 👍 1 kuba-orlik reacted with thumbs up emoji
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* 👍 1 reaction

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[75]@pukkandan
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[76]pukkandan commented [77]Jun 8, 2023

I dont know what their API terms are but I assume/suspect that
youtube would argue that since you are accessing their service you
are also consenting to their terms of service. The terms of service
are the terms under which they make their content available in the
first place, if you don't agree to the terms you are not supposed to
be accessing their services.

But the mail is specifically referring to developer API terms, not the
website's terms
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[78]@Growebis
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[79]Growebis commented [80]Jun 9, 2023

YouTube doing what they are known for, making shitty decisions for no
reason.
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[81]@jasons393
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[82]jasons393 commented [83]Jun 9, 2023

Now I'm wondering what their reaction would be when they found out that
we never used the API and agreed to the TOS.
All reactions

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[84]@vdbhb59
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[85]vdbhb59 commented [86]Jun 9, 2023

BTW, what was your reply? GitHub is not safe for code like this. Start
taking it away to self host as well, probably.
(THUMBS_UP react) 👍 3 felipebueno, mc776, and Nul-led reacted with
thumbs up emoji
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* 👍 3 reactions

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[87]@TheAssassin
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[88]TheAssassin commented [89]Jun 9, 2023

Dear users, please stop posting speculation in this thread or otherwise
post off-topic. I'm sure the team appreciates your support, but there
are better ways than bloating this thread. Feel free to show your ❤️
the initial post!

As a member of Team NewPipe, I'd like to offer you folks to get in
touch. We have closely monitored previous situations (e.g., youtube-dl)
and can provide some (non-professional) feedback about the legal
aspects. I do not see any imminent legal threat in this e-mail that
would require immediate action. I further do not expect GitHub to
permit any takedown requests, since this is clearly not about copyright
(i.e., DMCA does not play a part in this). I am interested in resolving
this in the best possible way for Invidious. You can find me on IRC in
NewPipe's channel or reach me or the team via e-mail (I also have PGP
set up).

Finally, I kindly ask [90]@TheFrenchGhosty and the team to lock this
thread to make sure relevant updates can be found easily.
(THUMBS_UP react) 👍 10 felipebueno, ggtylerr, Henryws, jasons393,
ThatOneCalculator, efb4f5ff-1298-471a-8973-3d47447115dc, C-Loftus,
the4anoni, tassoman, and shuvashish76 reacted with thumbs up emoji
(THUMBS_DOWN react) 👎 2 ahcheing and konradmb reacted with thumbs down
emoji (HEART react) ❤️ 5 Wolframme, ggtylerr, tukangcode,
sethforprivacy, and efb4f5ff-1298-471a-8973-3d47447115dc reacted with
heart emoji
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* 👍 10 reactions
* 👎 2 reactions
* ❤️ 5 reactions

Sorry, something went wrong.

[91]@selfisekai
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[92]selfisekai commented [93]Jun 9, 2023

reytan dev here. laughing my ass at so many details here. they make a
whole block of text accusing that you are using the API wrong, to at
the very end say "if you are accessing or using YouTube API
Services"...

I have even decided to look up these terms and how they define this
shit.

"API Client" means a website or software application (including a
mobile application) developed by you that accesses or uses the
YouTube API Services.

you might wonder what [94]the definition of API services is.

"YouTube API Services" means (i) the YouTube API services [...]

the very definition of this is a fallacy. and the e-mail phrasing
suggests that API services is when you get assigned your own keys (that
is, not innertube). thanks for confirming, youtube legal team!
(THUMBS_UP react) 👍 7 felipebueno, Wolframme, mc776, Henryws,
kariemoorman, efb4f5ff-1298-471a-8973-3d47447115dc, and Nul-led reacted
with thumbs up emoji
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* 👍 7 reactions

Sorry, something went wrong.

[95]@bkw777

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[96]Sign in to view

[97]@ggtylerr

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[99]@Darin755
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[100]Darin755 commented [101]Jun 9, 2023

You need a lawyer
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[102]@iv-org [103]iv-org locked as too heated and limited conversation
to collaborators [104]Jun 9, 2023

[105]@SamantazFox
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[106]SamantazFox commented [107]Jun 9, 2023

BTW, what was your reply? GitHub is not safe for code like this.
Start taking it away to self host as well, probably.

[108]@vdbhb59
1. We didn't reply. We're waiting to see how it goes. As mentioned
multiple times above, we don't use their official API, so they're
accusing us of something that hasn't happened.
2. Our code is already mirrored on our gitea:
[109]https://gitea.invidious.io/iv-org/, and I already have
registered my GPG keys there, just in case. If anything would
hapen, we have a backup ;)

Finally, I kindly ask [110]@TheFrenchGhosty and the team to lock
this thread to make sure relevant updates can be found easily.

[111]@TheAssassin Yeah, that's a good idea! I don't want this issue to
be clogged up with speculations either.

For all the others: we have a matrix/IRC (bridged) chat if you want to
discuss some more, but we'll moderate the chat too if the topic gets
too heated.

the very definition of this is a fallacy. and the e-mail phrasing
suggests that API services is when you get assigned your own keys
(that is, not innertube). thanks for confirming, youtube legal team!

[112]@selfisekai That's exactly what we though, hence why we are
waiting to see where it goes.
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[115]@TheAssassin [116]@pukkandan [117]@selfisekai [118]@ggtylerr
[119]@TheFrenchGhosty [120]@SamantazFox [121]@bkw777 [122]@Darin755
[123]@vdbhb59 [124]@jasons393 [125]@yamilt351 [126]@ahcheing
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57. https://gitea.invidious.io/iv-org
58. https://blog.thefrenchghosty.me/posts/im-not-invidious/
59. https://torrentfreak.com/youtube-orders-invidious-privacy-software-to-shut-down-in-7-days-230609/
60. https://alternativeto.net/news/2023/6/youtube-legal-team-asked-invidious-developers-to-take-down-the-service-within-7-days/
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